Shimano and Campagnolo – Can’t We All Get Along?

Shimano Derailleurs and Campagnolo Ergopower Levers Happy Together

Shimano derailleurs and Campagnolo Ergopower levers happy together

By popular demand, we’re finally publishing our Bike Hacker story (originally published in our premier issue, Issue 1) online. [Note: It was written prior to the emergence of Campagnolo 11-speed drivetrains, Shimano STI levers with hidden cables and the popular SRAM DoubleTap. Be sure to pick up a copy of a Issue 9 for an even more in-depth look that covers additional mix and match options, including our editor's new favorite involving the now dying Shimano Rapid Rise.]

Most ‘cross racers don’t have the luxury of component sponsors, don’t receive new bikes or new drivetrains each year, and lack pit crews to clean their bikes every lap. So, they need to select parts that will perform, be reliable under all conditions, are lightweight and affordable, and hopefully last many seasons.

We at Cyclocross Magazine are no different, and as we choose parts for our ‘cross bikes, we take all these things under consideration in hand-picking our parts. Over the last few years, we’ve come to be fond of one particular setup:  Campagnolo Ergopower shifters mated to Shimano derailleurs and cassettes. Some fondly call his setup “Shimergo.”

What the hell?  These two aren’t supposed to work, you say?  Don’t believe the companies or the brand loyalists. As long as 8 or 9 speeds in the back is enough for you, they work great, and the combination also allows you to save some money if you’re buying individual parts as well as some precious grams you’ll appreciate when lifting your bike for the 23rd time.

Run 10 speed Ergopower Levers with a Shimano 9 speed drivetrain just by clamping the cable as shown

Run 10-speed Ergopower Levers with a Shimano 9- speed drivetrain just by clamping the cable as shown

How does it work?  We won’t bore you with cable pull measurements, but basically Campagnolo shifters pull more cable per shift than Shimano STI shifters, and it just so happens that when you mate a 10-speed Ergopower shifter to a Shimano derailleur, they work perfectly with a Shimano 8-speed cassette. Prefer an extra gear? With just a simple change on how you clamp the shift cable, this setup will work perfectly with a 9-speed cassette as well (see picture at left).

We love the Campy shifter / Shimano drivetrain setup for a few reasons:

It’s lighter. Campy shifters are lighter than Shimano shifters, about 90-130 grams lighter than their Shimano equivalents.

It’s cheaper. Campy shifters are cheaper than their Shimano equivalents. Yet Shimano derailleurs are cheaper than their Campy equivalents. And Shimano-compatible wheels are cheaper, or more readily available, either from another bike, a local bike shop, or the local swap. We’re not rollin’ in it and need burrito and beer money. Priorities, right?

It’s cleaner. Those shift cables are nicely tucked under bar tape, away from the elements, and won’t get caught on people’s bikes, tree branches, or a poorly placed course-marking pole.

It’s more reliable. Okay, this might be subjective. But we’ve had many an STI-lever give out, with weak springs or broken springs or from a crash, and much fewer problems with Ergopower. And we can rest easy knowing Ergopowers are easily repairable and parts are readily available. STI repairs, on the other hand, have been known to end a race season or even a marriage.

Does it matter what Shimano rear derailleur you use?  Not really. There’s no such thing as a Shimano 7, 8, 9, or 10-speed rear derailleur. As long as you avoid pre-9-speed Dura Ace rear derailleurs, everything will work great.

But modern parts are 10 speed…why would you want to use 8 or 9 speeds? Cyclocross in most areas is a muddy sport. The wider spacing and more cable pull between cogs allows more reliable shifting when mud/grass/snow get in the way of the cable and derailleur, and it’s been our experience that the wider spacing doesn’t get as jammed full of mud as the narrower 10-speed cassettes.

What’s the downside?  There are two potential downsides we can think of. The first is that many people, especially those with larger hands, prefer the longer Shimano STI lever bodies, especially the newer 10-speed models. These longer levers are also easier to point up, creating a large surface to push against and a position similar to mountain bike bar ends. The second drawback for some is that it’s harder for some people to upshift during a sprint from the drops. This often depends on the exact positioning of the levers, as pointing them upwards makes it harder for those with shorter fingers to reach the upshift button.

Want to try this setup but gotta have 10-speeds in the back?  You can either buy re-spaced cassettes or use a little pulley from Jtek Engineering.

Save Weight and Money…Mix and Match!

Brake/Shift LeversRear DerailleurWeight (grams)*Price*
Campagnolo RecordCampagnolo Record324 + 184 = 508$310 + $280= $590
Shimano Dura-AceShimano Dura-Ace420 + 180 = 600$400 + $120 = $520
Campagnolo RecordShimano Dura-Ace324 + 180 = 504$310 + $120 = $430
Shimano UltegraShimano Ultegra485 + 205 = 690$300 + $77 = $377
Campagnolo CentaurCampagnolo Centaur334 + 227 = 561$200 + $120 = $320
Campagnolo CentaurShimano Ultegra334 + 205= 539$200 + $77 = $277
Shimano 105Shimano 105500 + 221 = 721$280 + $65 = $345
Campagnolo VeloceCampagnolo Veloce351 + 250 = 601$140 + $80 = $220
Campagnolo VeloceShimano 105351 + 221 = 572$140 + $65 = $205

*Your results may vary. Weights and prices for 10-speed parts as seen in major catalogs in Fall 2007.

The rear cable clamp on a Rapid Rise rear derailleur to run 9 speeds on a 10 speed Campagnolo lever. © Cyclocross Magazine

The rear cable clamp on a Shimano Rapid Rise rear derailleur to run 9 speeds on a 10 speed Campagnolo lever. © Cyclocross Magazine

Notes:

  • Front derailleurs vary less in price and weight between the two brands. We’ve used Ergopower with Shimano front derailleurs with success, but a Campagnolo front with Ergopower shifters is ideal.
  • You’ll need a 9-speed Shimano-compatible cassette to complete the package, which can also save weight over 10-speed cassettes.

Want to get started? Check these out:
Campagnolo 10-speed Ergopower shifters
Shimano 8 speed cassettes
Shimano 9 speed cassettes


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plinkypete 5 pts

Hi Guys, a little late on this topic but this may get me out of a costly upgrade!

can anybody tell me if the following combo will work?

Campag Xenon 10spd shifters

Shimano 9spd 105 rear mech

shimano sora front mech

shimano 9spd cassette

thanks,

Pete

cyclocross 6 pts moderator

plinkypete We can't comment on the front shifting - but the rear should work with the alternative cable clamp. Good luck! If your front shifter has many clicks, you probably can get it to work, but a front mech is pretty affordable too. Good luck!

I hadn't seen it mentioned recently, but JTek is indeed back, so buy their stuff! Those shiftmates, while not the cheapest solution, work VERY WELL. I've been a mechanic for about 6 years now, and I recommend them highly (no, I don't work for them and never have, but they make solid products).

Are SRAM Double tap mix and match options covered in issue 9? I stumbled across this (excellent) article and would love to have more info on this topic, especially regarding use of SRAM 10 speed with Shimano 7 and 8 speed (Zinn's statements make the SRAM 10-Shimano 8 sound workable, but offer no certainty; would give me great upgrade options), but I haven't done any cyclocross and don't know if it would be worth it (for me) to subscribe. If issue 9 includes the info I'm after I'd be glad to buy the issue and see how much interest I have in the magazine (and maybe it will help me decide if I want to spend the time/money/energy to try the sport).

Hi Adrian, we do talk about Campy/SRAM compatibility, and do address Zinn's comments about that working. We don't address any SRAM/Shimano compatibility. The real challenge (which we address in the article too) is that Campy/Shimano don't pull an even amount of cable per shift - it varies across the range. SRAM does. That's problematic for compatibility, but we do believe that people still do it anyway - it just depends on your tolerance for less than ideal shifting or perfect alignment. We also cover things like Campy 11, Rapid Rise what just might be the closest thing to a poor man's electronic shifting.

We've got a few back copies of issue 9 left - I think you will enjoy the mag. That was our last mostly b/w issue. Now we're in full color. If you enjoy in-depth interviews and profiles, technical features, objective reviews, travel stories, and a bit of Myth Busters-type research you'll probably like the mag. If you want a frequent mag that's filled with mostly ads and only features the top riders, you will not like CXM. And who knows, it could save you money with some of the tips and pay for itself.

And if you get your subscription in super soon, you'll get issue 12 at our bulk mailing rates.

Good luck!

cyclocross 6 pts

Sorry for the late reply, but we do have some SRAM mix and match topics covered in the issue. We haven't had much luck with the SRAM/Campy or SRAM/Shimano because Campagnolo and Shimano pull different amounts of cable per shift while SRAM does not. We also tested a DaVinci modified SRAM mtb derailleur, and we spent a lot of time with RapidRise and road shifters. Issue 9 can now be added directly to the cart here: http://cxmagazine.com/subscribe Cheers.

cxpaul 5 pts

in issue 9, you seem to imply moderate success combing sram double tap with a shimano rapid rise rear derailleur using an 8-speed cassette. However, you do mention the importance of dialing-in the setup with respect to the other combinations. Is this setup running on such a fine line to make it even worth it? I assume this setup utilized the "alternative clamping bolt" technique? I have a rival shifter and I'm underwhelmed by the downshift performance/effort, so if I'm just a cheap 8-speed cassette away from trying this out... cyclocross

can i use shimano 105 shifters with both shimano front and rear derailleur with campagnolo cassette and crank?

this is a tough combo. your best bet, assuming shimano 10s derailleurs and shifters, is a campy 11s cassette and not using one gear. it's not a great match but shoudl work fine with campagnolo 11speed cassette, chain, crankset.

so, my 6 speed 7400 dura ace derailleur wouldnt work? bummer. any workaround for this?

btw, sorry for the late response but your 7400 should work fine with a campy 11 shifter running 8 speed in the rear. not sure if you want to spring for that shifter though.

hi,
thanks to all for this thread, it's heartening me as i'm trying to figure out if i've just blown some $$ on these campy levers to do a shimergo thing. can i ask if this set up is a workable one? DA 7700 double, campy record 10 speed ergo, shimano 600 8-speed rear der, shimano 600 8-speed cassette. that's good as is....right? i've been suddenly worrying that i'll need to do the hubbub/9-speed thing, but would prefer not to.

did you get it to work? should have worked perfectly!

hey, thanks for asking!! it works beautifully about 95% of the time, and then sometimes it requires an extra few clicks to get it sitting right and quit its annoying plink-plink. not sure if i know how to fix. i LOVE being able to sweep through from large sprockets to small, and vice versa, and the trim-ability is decidedly Hot. check it: http://velospace.org/node/34244

Will this combo work, I'll use Jtek Shiftmate for the rear drivetrain: Campy Veloce 10spd ergopower shifters, shimano SLX 10spd cassette (11-36) and derailleur. Front: Sugiono XD500 crankset, and the Ird alpina front derailleur

We're not sure on this combo as the slx is supposed to have different cable pull than previous road and mtb systems. Better off getting a 11-32 and running an older mtb derailleur. That will work. -via mobile

I recently installed Chorus 10s ergo levers on my 2005 Fuji Cross Pro with a 9s Dura-Ace rear derailleur. I used the 90 degree cable attachment as described above, and I love it. However, I am having some problems with the chain skip/jump (not autoshift) while using the 2 or 3 large cogs while under extreme pressure ascending sharp, steep climbs. I had the hanger checked and found to be straight, and neither the chain nor cogs are excessively worn. On the stand, it shifts beautifully, but the LBS wrench felt the cable was loose on the way up and tight on the way down the cassette. I weigh 185 lbs and consider myself a power rider. What suggestions might you have? Could frame flex account for this problem?

ken, find yourself an older left that's pre qs and it'll work great. sorry, we're not 100% sure which models and years that includes...but with some searching you can probably decipher all the changes.  the years with the right-side escape mechanism probably are the years to avoid as the left was probably not the microshift. all 10-speed stuff should work okay - you might wanna play with your front mech though.  i know 11s stuff has given ppl fits with triples...but newer 10s left levers have worked, but better with campy front mechs.

hope that helps.

I have the Shimano 105 5603 group (triple).  I crashed and damaged the left shifter.  I would like to go to Campy shifers because I understand replacement parts are available.  Can you tell me which, if any, Campy shifters are compatible with the 105 deraileurs and thriple crank and cassett. 

Thanks in advance.

Will campag mirage shifters work with 9 speed sora derailleurs and a 9 speed tiagra cassette?
Thanks.

richard,
they certainly will work, but will only give you 5/6 speed index spacing.  i _think_ if you try an alternative cable clamp, it'll get you up to 8 speed shifting but that's it.  if you went campy 11, you'd get 8 speeds with the normal clamp. good luck!

Does anyone know if Campy Record 10 levers will work with an old Dura-Ace 8 rear derailler?

Hey Ron,

You should have fine luck with this setup as long as you: 1) use the alternative cable clamp on your rear mech, and 2) your front shifter has the multi-click option.  obviously you'd want a shimano or sram rear cassette.

good luck.

for a Shimergo set up using a mtb drivetrain, will 10speed Chorus or Record shifters (not bar end) work with a 9speed Shimano XT triple crankset and XT Front Derailleur?

thx!

chris,
you should be fine with a 9 speed chain on the campy 10 crankset. I'd go with a sram/shimano chain though. you can keep your campy front mech too.

i currently have a full campy record 10 sp group (double in the front). i want to downgrade to a 9 speed for a thicker chain, less maintenance, and cheaper repairs. if i go with a shimano rear derailleur and cassette, i'm assuming i will also have to switch to a shimano crank and chain as well. this is fine, I just want to do what's bests for long term trouble free use. let me know if i've got this right. thanks!

Word. I know this is a fairly old thread yet I'm glad I stumbled upon it. Wish I could return the kind help, you guys cleared up a slew of questions I'm sure a lot of us had for years. If any of you cats need advice on your Selmer Mark VI, R13 or any other woodwind instrument I'm your man...I owe you one. Cheers!

no question is dumb... you should be able to use any crankset, but 9 or 10 speed rings are helpful if using 9 speeds in the back and a 9 speed chain. your DA crank will work great. shifting might be best with 9 speeds in the back (with alternative clamp), 9 speed chain, and your existing 9 speed rings but rings made for 8 or 10s will be fine as well.

jim, not sure i understand your question - but you want your rear wheels to work with either campy or shimano shifters and derailleurs? if the derailleur and shifter are same brand, then you just need a respaced cassette OR a cable pull adjuster (jtek) to get the different brand of cassette to work with shift/derailleur combo. alternatively, if you found an older campy rear with new campy shifters you can work well with shimano 10s cassettes. shimano/shimano won't pull enough cable for a campy cassette. if that's not what you were asking, post back, we'll do our best to help.

Dumbest question yet..What Crank set up can be used with these combination's. Shimano / Campy/ Sram? I have a Dura Ace 9 speed crank that I'm wondering if I can use along with my current chain. I'm just assuming since it's not been discussed it's possibly a moot point. Thanks for posting this information. I kinda dig the idea of mixing components. It gives the brand loyalist yet another issue to raise an eyebrow at...all in good fun!

hey vince, check out issue 9 - should be out soon!

As much as I have tried to stay "Campy only" to keep things simple, I find myself with a lot of Shimano stuff creeping into my quiver.
What components and tools would I need to make my rear wheels work with both Campy and Shimano cassettes? I have mostly Mavic wheels with 10spd in both standards.

Will the new 10 speed Ultegra 6703 shifters/brake levers work with a shimano xtr rear derailleur?

Can you tell us more on regarding the "rapid rise & ergo is great, been testing that for a while...more on that soon!"
Was wondering the setup you used that was great? Do you use a Shiftmate?

Great...Can't wait for Issue 9...Just subscribed to your great mag a few days ago...Keep up the great job!!!

hey vince - haven't been able to afford campy 11 but with the "alternate" cable clamp you should be able to get them to run shimano 10, I suspect. j-tek, fyi, isn't ideal for anything SRAM since the cable pull for SRAM is uniform. more on that in issue 9!

Has anyone tried using Campy 11 shifters with either shimano 7900/6700 or sram force? I know j-tek shiftmate will work, but was hoping for feedback.
Thanks
Vince

you can either do a re-spaced cassette (wheels manufacturing makes one: http://wheelsmfg.com/content/view/527/40/ ) depending on what speeds you need, or the j-tek shiftmate - those guys are back and running. You'd need #1: http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm tell them cxm sent you if you buy either (they are not advertisers). If you're into hacking, you could just re-configure how you clamp your cable. A little high school geometry will get you the approximate change in angle you need so you have less pull per shift.

Good luck. Post back on what you end up doing.

how about campy ergo shifter, campy derailleurs and shimano cassette?
what has to be done to have that shift well?

hi there. is your 9 speed shifter new or old style? does it say 9 speed on it? not sure if the j-tek is designed for new style 9-speed or old style, or both. if it's new style, it should - the cable pull of the new style 9 speed is the same as 10 speed.

your other option is if you have a new style 9 speed lever, is to get an old style rear derailleur, and it'll work perfectly on shimano 9, surprisingly. good luck.

sorry for the late reply. the old style (multi-click) campy shifter will work fine, but you might want a campy front derailleur for better luck. good luck!

Can I use a Campy 9 speed shifter with a Campy 10 speed rear deraileur with a JTek ShiftMate on a Shimano 9 speed cassette?

Thankx for the nice tips,

I'm planning to build a centaur 10s/ultrega 9s combo. I was going for a triple ultrega crakset and front derailleur, will that work? What would you suggest as triple front shifter otherwise?

cheers!

Can I use Campagnolo shifters and derailleurs (front +rear) with Shimano Crank+cassette+chain?
Any problem or remarks?

What about the Canti levers? OK with the campy?

Thanks.

Thanks- so if i got you right it would be better to stay with the Shimano rear derailleur in this set-up.
I am building it 9 speeds- I realized it is more suitable for Cyclocross.

you can do this - but the cassette spacing will be wrong. you can get a respaced cssette to make it work. how many speeds?

campy will work fine with canti brakes. good luck.

if you can grab a clamp washer from an old derailleur that has one, it'd make your life easier. there should be a way to basically offset the cable clamp position (two big washers?) but havven't tried it. good luck

So, I'm going to run Campy Centaur 10 speed shifters with a m960 XTR rear derailleur. I've seen some other articles online that suggest changing the orientation of the cable clamps on Shimano rear derailleurs to make the set up work--- m960 doesn't have these clamps. Do I need to do anything special when I'm setting up the rear derailleur--- cable clamps adjustment or otherwise?

Colin,

sorry for the late reply - no can do with a campy rear derailleur. j-tek used to sell a shift-mate that would do that - if you can find one (not made any more). that rear clamp def.

the rotated tabbed-washer doesn't work with campy because the bolt clamp is different but I bet there is a way clamp it so that it pulls less. def. worth experimenting! basically, clamp it off to the side, reducing the effective pull. you goal here is to reduce the amount it pulls. a campy 11 shifter and rear derailleur would work great with shimano 9 cassette, btw.

good luck.

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